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by The Argument
Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending? Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds. This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out.
Latest Episodes
The most recent episodes — sign up to get AI-powered summaries of each one.
- 1 weeks ago1h 31m
Why environmentalists are fighting the biggest energy bill in years
Why are so many environmentalists against permitting reform? Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias explain the bipartisan permitting reform bill and why many environmental groups oppose it. Known as the Bipartisan American Affordability and Jobs Act (BAAJA), the bill is seen as a potential win for the abundance movement because it speeds up permitting for energy infrastructure. But progressive critics worry it will lead to even more fossil fuel infrastructure.Plus, a peer review on why people want fewer kids and what it means for the pro-natalist movement.Our next Book Club episode will discuss Hannah Arendt's "The Human Condition," so grab a copy now if you want to read along! Permitting reform explained: the bipartisan bill What NEPA actually does How NIMBYs abuse environmental protections What Democrats don’t like about BAAJA Why environmentalists should like this bill Matt’s problem with green groups Why geothermal is stuck on federal land Is this bill good for data centers? Mark Carney’s carbon pricing in Canada Has the abundance movement failed? Can permitting reform fight climate change? Peer review: Everyone’s having fewer kidsSupport the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.
- 2 weeks ago1h 20m
Cancel Columbus, Save Jefferson?
Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias debate which historical figures deserve to be canceled and which shouldn’t have been. With the Trump administration pushing to restore statues of figures removed during the “Great Wokening,” they ask what a statue, a holiday, or a name on a school is actually for. Jerusalem lays out her test: why we honor someone and whether their cruelty is the main thing they’re remembered for. Matt argues the bigger problem is that we undercommemorate people, and that we should want more statues, not fewer.Plus, a peer review on whether machine learning can predict who will be shot, and how much power the government should have to use that data. Who deserves to be canceled? Why Matt wants more statues, not fewer Jerusalem’s test for canceling a historical figure Should we cancel Columbus Day? The Cesar Chavez cancellation Robert E. Lee and the myth of the Lost Cause Cancel Paul Ehrlich of The Population Bomb Uncanceling Flannery O’Connor Uncanceling Thomas Jefferson Peer Review: Can AI predict who will be shot?Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.
- 3 weeks ago1h 25m
Trump, Xi, and the race for superintelligence
ChinaTalk's Jordan Schneider joins Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias to compare how the U.S. and China are approaching artificial intelligence. They dive into the Trump-Xi summit, whether AI will change how politicians govern, and the limits of what Chinese AI models are allowed to say. They also discuss the gap in public opinion: why do so many people in China have positive expectations for AI while Americans are dooming?Plus, a peer review on how childhood neighbors shape the careers we choose. AI, China, and the Trump-Xi summit Will AI replace politicians? Grok, DeepSeek, and who controls AI Can AI save Congress? Asking DeepSeek about Chinese Democracy Does AI break the development ladder? Why China is more optimistic about AI than America Corruption in China vs. the U.S. Why the White House wants to rebrand AI as "superintelligence" Peer Review: Do childhood neighbors shape your career?Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.
- Oct 1, 20261h 1m
What the hell is going on in Europe?
How can Europe's liberals stop the far-right? Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas debate the far right's rise in Germany, France, and beyond, and whether Europe's mainstream parties mishandled immigration and opened the door for the AfD and Marine Le Pen. They get into what Sweden and Denmark got right on integration, why deportations and asylum deterrence are so hard, whether liberals should ever govern with the far right, and why Europe's strange aversion to air conditioning is a gift to populists.Plus a peer review on whether having more kids pushes mothers into remote work. Are liberals losing Europe? Magna Carta, freedom of movement, and immigration Dril tweets and the sane-washing dilemma Should liberals give into populist demands? Joe Biden, deportations, and asylum Libya, the Mediterranean, and deterrence What Sweden and Denmark got right France, the UK, and air conditioning Peer Review: moms and remote workSupport the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.
- Sep 24, 20261h 13m
Chat, are we doomed?
Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias debate whether artificial intelligence poses an existential risk to human civilization, or if that idea is just a dangerous distraction from real, near-term risks. Matt's case for doom is that we'll cede more power and authority to AI agents as they recursively self-improve, leaving humans more vulnerable in the end. Jerusalem pushes back on this and argues that obsessing over extinction scenarios makes it harder to regulate biological weapons, cybersecurity vulnerabilities, and the economic disruptions already underway.Plus a peer review of a new paper on why meetings can actually be good for you and your company. Is advanced AI going to kill us all? Jerusalem pushes back on AI doom The Claude Code auto-mode problem Bioweapons and AI's real near-term risks Why extinction risk still matters politically Why Matt is scared of a flawless AI Reasons AI won't take over The case for an AI pause Peer review: why meetings are actually good for youSupport the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.
- Sep 17, 20261h 35m
Are we on the road to serfdom?
For this month’s book club, Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias read Friedrich von Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom,” the 1944 book that argued central planning inevitably leads to totalitarianism and became one of the most cited books in American and British politics. Jerusalem and Matt get into whether Hayek’s central thesis actually explains Nazi Germany, the similarities between socialism and fascism, and why authoritarian regimes are always run by scumbags instead of nice-guy technocrats. Are we on the road to serfdom? Hayek's real argument: central planning leads to dictatorship Britain puts Hayek's theory to the test What's the line between socialism and the welfare state? Why this 80-year-old debate keeps coming back The viral tweet about life before Uber What does "economic freedom" actually mean? Decentralizing power: philanthropy, federalism, and price controls When regulation goes too far Why the worst people always end up on topSupport the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.
- Sep 10, 20261h 37m
How 9/11 changed American politics forever
As the 25th anniversary of the September 11 attacks approaches, Jerusalem Demsas and Matt Yglesias look back at the day itself, the warning signs that preceded it, and the 25 years of politics that followed. They trace how the response reshaped foreign policy, launched the global War on Terror, and set the Republican Party on a path that eventually led to Donald Trump and the rise of MAGA. They also get into the intelligence failures before the hijackings, the Patriot Act, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and how the Republicans and Democrats have flipped on issues like security and surveillance. Plus a peer review on how private tutoring centers like Kumon affect student performance. The difference between George W. Bush and Donald Trump The World Trade Center bombing Why the towers didn't collapse right away The many red flags Bush, Saddam, and the Gulf War How today's GOP would have responded differently The hate crime surge, and who it actually hit Neocons, hawkish Democrats, and the case for war Why right liberalism is in retreat Somalia, Black Hawk Down, and intervention fatigue Explaining 9/11 to people who don't remember it If a Democrat was president on 9/11 Peer review: How much do private tutors really help?Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.
- Sep 3, 20261h 26m
Nate Silver on why the center-left is losing
Nate Silver thinks the center-left might be right about a lot of policy questions, but they're still losing the political argument. He joins Jerusalem Demsas, Matt Yglesias, and special guest Jeremiah Johnson (staff writer at The Argument and host of the New Liberal Podcast) to dive into his recent article, "12 questions for the center-left." They get into whether liberalism and centrism are actually the same thing, why liberals need to be more vocal about their accomplishments, and whether many "anti-establishment" politicians like AOC, Elizabeth Warren, and Bernie Sanders are actually part of the establishment. Plus a peer review of a new paper on AI-assisted decision-making in child protective services and what it reveals about human and algorithmic bias. Nate Silver's questions for the center-left Vibe check for the center-left Liberalism vs. centrism: not the same thing Zohran Mamdani and sewer socialism Answering Hasan Piker: do centrists believe in anything? Why the Democratic establishment won't get overthrown Why the center-left won't get angry What happened to the center-right? Is the DSA a threat to liberalism? California, LA, and the failure of one-party rule Peer review: Can AI make CPS decisions less biased?Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.comNew episodes every Thursday — subscribe so you never miss a debate!The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.
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About The Argument
Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending? Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds. This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out.
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