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Irregular Warfare Podcast: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Irregular Warfare Initiative
The Ir irregular Warfare Podcast explores an important component of war throughout history. Small wars, drone strikes, special operations forces, counterterrorism, proxies—this podcast covers the full range of topics related to irregular war and features in-depth conversations with guests from the military, academia, and the policy community.
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- 2 weeks ago49 min
What's Cyber Good For?
Episode #167 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast grapples with the role cyberspace should play in the broader coercion toolkit. The conversation considers why cyber has remained a go-to tool for shaping adversary behavior even as research has cast doubt on its coercive effectiveness. We explore the practical challenges of signaling credibly in a secretive domain, unpacking what cases like the 2014 Sony Pictures hack and the discovery of Volt Typhoon reveal about cyber coercion in practice. Our guests close by discussing a fundamental question: if cyber isn’t the coercive silver bullet it’s often made out to be, what is cyber actually good for? This episode is anchored in the article Minding the gap? The strategic logic of cyber coercion in theory and practice by Dr. Erica Lonergan. Dr. Erica Lonergan is an Assistant Professor in the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia University, where she focuses on research and teaching related to emerging technologies, strategy, and international security. She was previously on the faculty at West Point, and also served as a Senior Director on the Cyberspace Solarium Commission. Erica's second book, Open Secrets: Power and Influence in Proxy Alliances, is forthcoming next month with Oxford University Press. Dr. Michael Sulmeyer is a Professor of the Practice at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service. Previously, he was the first Senate-confirmed Assistant Secretary of Defense for Cyber Policy and the Principal Cyber Advisor to the Secretary of Defense. Alisa Laufer hosts this episode. Please reach out to the Irregular Warfare Podcast team with any questions about the episode or the broader mission of the show. The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners to support the community of irregular warfare professionals. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for (always free!) access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources. Support for the Irregular Warfare Podcast comes from Hadean, an AI company focused on synthetic environments for training, planning, and decision support. Learn more at hadean.com. Support is also provided by Leidos, a company focused on cyber and technology innovation, intelligence analysis, and mission support. You can find more information about both IWI partners in the episode description. Learn more at leidos.com/intel. All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. Intro music: “Unsilenced” by Ketsa Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa
- Sep 29, 202647 min
The Airpower We Need for Irregular Warfare
Summary Why does providing aircraft so often fall short of building an effective air force? Retired Lieutenant General Anthony Rock, Michael Horowitz, and Tobias Switzer join Kyle Atwell to examine the gap between acquiring technology and turning it into military power. Drawing on Switzer’s RAND report, Build Partner Airpower, Not Air Forces, the conversation explores what American air advisors learned in Iraq and Afghanistan and what future missions should do differently. The guests discuss the appeal of prestige aircraft, the organizational demands of modern aviation, and the case for affordable equipment that partners can put to use quickly. They examine dependence on contractors, the risks facing advisors, and the tension between building partner forces and planning a complete U.S. withdrawal. Throughout, they ask how policymakers should define success when useful combat capability may still require years of outside support. Takeaways Providing aircraft does not automatically create airpower. Effective capability also requires trained people, maintenance, logistics, doctrine, intelligence, and functioning bases. Building a Western-style air force and generating useful combat airpower are different objectives, particularly during an ongoing insurgency. Iraq and Afghanistan presented unusually difficult starting conditions, including war-damaged institutions, limited technical skills, and urgent operational demands. Technology transfers should reflect a partner’s ability to absorb and employ equipment, not just its ability to acquire it. Political loyalties, patronage, and rival institutions can undermine personnel decisions and create organizational barriers that outside advisors cannot control. Prestige aircraft can appeal to partner leaders even when simpler platforms better meet immediate operational needs. Switzer argues that “cheap, fast, and good enough” should guide aviation acquisitions for partners fighting insurgencies, with attention to availability, spare parts, and the problem at hand. Arms transfers also shape strategic relationships. Partners may turn to competing suppliers when American equipment is unavailable or restricted. Contractor maintenance and logistics may be enduring requirements rather than temporary bridges to full self-sufficiency. Policymakers should reconcile withdrawal plans with the continuing support that partner aviation capabilities may need to remain effective. Advisor and contractor protection is a strategic concern as well as a tactical one; casualties can erode the political support needed to sustain a mission. American use of simpler aircraft could improve advisor proficiency and demonstrate their value to partners, particularly in permissive operating environments. Militaries that define their missions around outcomes, encourage experimentation, and reward merit are better positioned to adopt new technologies. Success should be assessed against explicit political and military objectives, distinguishing immediate battlefield effects, lasting capability, and strategic influence. Preserving air-advising experience matters even when current priorities shift. Future advisors need access to earlier lessons before another crisis begins. Guests Lieutenant General Anthony Rock is a retired U.S. Air Force officer who led the Iraqi Training and Advisory Mission–Air Force and commanded the 321st Air Expeditionary Wing in Baghdad in 2011. He later served as Chief of the Office of the Defense Representative in Pakistan and as Inspector General of the Air Force. Professor Michael Horowitz is the Richard Perry Professor and Director of Perry World House at the University of Pennsylvania. His research examines military innovation and the adoption of new technologies. He is the author of The Diffusion of Military Power and served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Force Development and Emerging Capabilities from 2022 to 2024. Colonel Tobias Switzer is an adjunct senior policy researcher at RAND and a retired U.S. Air Force officer. A former special operations helicopter pilot and combat aviation
- Sep 15, 202655 min
War at Arm’s Length: Can Military Assistance Work?
U.S. military assistance often has a bad reputation, but it isn’t doomed to failure. This episode examines why security assistance succeeds with some partners and falls short with others, and what it takes to turn weapons and training into lasting military capability. Lieutenant General (Ret.) Charles Hooper, Dr. Richard Bennet, and Dr. Alexander Noyes are the guests. Today’s episode explores how the United States can build effective military partners, drawing on Richard Bennet and Alexander Noyes’s book, War at Arm’s Length: How America Can Build Effective Partners Through Military Assistance (Yale University Press, 2026). Our guests begin by asking what effectiveness means, when security assistance advances U.S. interests, and how Washington should assess the results. Bennet and Noyes explain the book’s central argument that shared security interests and capable defense institutions make assistance more likely to succeed. The discussion then examines how far sustained assistance and personal relationships can bring partners’ interests closer together, and how much alignment is needed at the outset. Drawing on cases including Ukraine and Colombia, the guests explore the importance of partners’ willingness to reform and the limits of externally imposed change. The episode closes with recommendations for choosing partners, coordinating U.S. assistance, and sequencing support so that institutions can sustain the capabilities Washington helps provide. Lieutenant General (Ret.) Charles W. Hooper is Senior Counselor at The Cohen Group and a former director of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency. In this role, he led the agency responsible for the sale of all US weapons, military equipment, support services, and training packages to foreign governments, which included oversight of 20,000 people globally and over $50 billion in annual sales. During his 41-year military career, he served as the Senior U.S. Defense Official in Egypt, U.S. Defense Attaché to China, and Director of Strategy, Plans, and Programs at US Africa Command and Deputy Director for Strategic Planning and Policy at US Indo-Pacific Command. He speaks fluent Mandarin and is a graduate of West Point and Harvard’s Kennedy School. Dr. Richard Bennet is a senior research associate at the Center for International and Security Studies in the University of Maryland’s School of Public Policy. His work examines strategic competition and the effectiveness of defense activities, drawing on experience coordinating assessments and program evaluation at multiple U.S. combatant commands. He earned his doctorate in war studies at King’s College London and is coauthor of War at Arm’s Length. Dr. Alexander Noyes is a fellow in the Talbott Center for Security, Strategy, and Technology at the Brookings Institution and coauthor of War at Arm’s Length. From 2021 to 2023, he served as a senior advisor and then deputy director in the Office of the Secretary of Defense for Policy, leading efforts to evaluate security cooperation and providing policy oversight for institutional capacity building programs. He earned his doctorate at the University of Oxford. Alexandra Chinchilla is the host for this episode. Please reach out to her with any questions about the episode or IWI. The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners to support the community of irregular warfare professionals. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for (always free!) access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources. All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. Intro music: “Unsilenced” by Ketsa Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa
- Sep 1, 202651 min
Hidden Costs of Precision
Episode 164 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast grapples with the hidden costs of precision warfare, looking at how drone strikes affect civilian populations well beyond their immediate lethal footprint. Anchored in a study using twelve billion geocoded cell phone records from Yemen, the conversation explores how drone strikes trigger sharp spikes in civilian mobility and communication—disruptions on a scale comparable to major natural disasters—even when no civilians are physically harmed. Our guests unpack what these findings mean for the strategic logic of precision airpower and discuss the tension between tactical accuracy and perceived legitimacy on the ground. The article is here: Estimating the Impact of Drone Strikes on Civilians Using Call Detail Records Dr. Aidan Milliff is an assistant professor of political science at The Ohio State University. His research examines how people interpret and respond to political violence. Aidan earned his PhD from MIT, where he was a member of the Security Studies Program. Lieutenant Colonel Paul Lushenko, PhD, is a globally recognized expert on artificial intelligence, autonomy, drones, and counter-drone warfare and currently serves as Chief Strategist for the U.S. military’s counter-drone efforts. He is retiring from the U.S. Army after more than two decades of leadership, including extensive service in Special Operations Forces, and is the author of four books and dozens of peer-reviewed articles. His work as both a scholar and practitioner has helped shape the international debate on emerging technologies, autonomy, drones, and the future of warfare. Alisa Laufer hosts this episode with Alexandra Chinchilla. Please reach out to the Irregular Warfare Podcast team with any questions about the episode or the broader mission of the show. The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners to support the community of irregular warfare professionals. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for (always free!) access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources. All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. Intro music: “Unsilenced” by Ketsa Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa
- Aug 18, 20261h 12m
The Future of War Part IV: Special Operations on a Global Battlefield
This episode of the Irregular Warfare Podcast concludes our four-part Future of War series, pairing author and futurist August Cole with senior special operations leaders to explore how tomorrow’s conflicts may unfold. Today’s episode centers on Operation Lightning, a near-future story by P.W. Singer and August Cole that imagines Army Rangers operating across a truly global battlefield. Set during a large-scale conflict with China in 2039, the story follows a four-person Ranger reconnaissance element infiltrating a Chinese space facility in Antarctica. Rather than destroy the facility, the Rangers covertly corrupt its surveillance data, blinding Chinese sensors and creating an opening for a Ranger task force thousands of miles away to seize a critical airfield in the Indo-Pacific. Joining the discussion are Lieutenant General Gil Ferguson, Commanding General of U.S. Army Special Operations Command (USASOC), and Command Sergeant Major David Waldo, USASOC’s senior enlisted leader. Together with Cole, they examine how Army Special Operations Forces can contribute to the joint force during large-scale combat—and how small, distributed teams can create strategic effects across theaters and domains. At the conclusion of the episode, listeners will hear a professionally narrated reading of Operation Lightning, bringing to life one possible vision of Army Special Operations Forces in the conflicts of the late 2030s. Ben Jebb is the host for this episode. Please reach out to Ben a with any questions about this episode or the Irregular Warfare Podcast. The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners in the field of irregular warfare. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources.
- Aug 11, 202659 min
From Subversion to Resistance: Lessons from Russia’s War in Ukraine
Today’s episode examines how Russian agents and local militants exploited ambiguity, weak state capacity, and fragmented local authority to transform unrest in the Donbas into an armed insurgency in 2014. At its core, it is a story about how a small group of armed actors can seize a city—and how local institutions, political legitimacy, and civil society can stop them. Dr. Celeste Wallander and Dr. Serhiy Kudelia are the guests. Summary Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine began in February 2022, but the war began eight years earlier with the annexation of Crimea and the outbreak of conflict in the Donbas. Wallander and Kudelia trace how Russian operatives converted genuine but diffuse political discontent into an armed insurgency, why militants seized some cities but failed in others, and how confusion over how to respond gave militants time to consolidate control. Their discussion traces Ukraine’s transformation from a state hampered in 2014 by fractured ties between Kyiv and local administrators and unprepared security forces to one capable of mounting a determined resistance to Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022—a transformation enabled by stronger military capacity, municipal leadership, democratic legitimacy, and civil society. They also revisit the debate over US military assistance, the Minsk process, and what outside partners can realistically accomplish when crises escalate faster than relationships, training, and logistics can be built. Dr. Celeste A. Wallander is the executive director of Penn Washington, the University of Pennsylvania’s program in Washington, D.C. From 2022 to 2025, she served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs. She previously served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Russia and Central Asia on the National Security Council from 2013 to 2017 and as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia from 2009 to 2012. She has also served as president and CEO of the U.S.-Russia Foundation and held positions at American University, Georgetown University, Harvard University, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and the Council on Foreign Relations. Dr. Serhiy Kudelia is a professor of political science at Baylor University. His research focuses on the onset and dynamics of insurgencies and civil wars, political regimes and regime change, and political institutions, with a geographic emphasis on Ukraine, Russia, and the former Soviet Union. He is the author of Seize the City, Undo the State: The Inception of Russia’s War on Ukraine (Oxford University Press, 2025), a micro-level study based on more than one hundred interviews with participants and observers of the conflict. The book conducts a meticulous comparison of mobilization dynamics in over a dozen towns of Donbas as well as in two major cities outside of it: Kharkiv and Odesa. It examines how Russian intervention, local elites, militants, municipal officials, and civic resistance produced sharply different outcomes. The book received the American Association for Ukrainian Studies’ 2026 Book Prize. Alexandra Chinchilla is the host for this episode. Please reach out to her with any questions about the episode or IWI. The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners to support the community of irregular warfare professionals. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for (always free!) access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources. All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. Intro music: “Unsilenced” by Ketsa Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa
- Jul 28, 20261h 1m
Five Years After the Withdrawal: Insights from the Afghanistan War Commission
Ahead of the fifth anniversary of the American withdrawal from Afghanistan this August, Dr. Colin Jackson and Colonel (Ret.) E.J. Degen join us to discuss initial insights from the Afghanistan War Commission’s work. The Afghanistan War Commission is an independent body established by the U.S. Congress to examine the key strategic, diplomatic, and operational decisions that pertain to the war in Afghanistan from June 2001 to August 2021. In particular, the episode examines what the US war in Afghanistan can teach us about the promise—and limits—of building partner armies. Summary Security force assistance was central to the US war in Afghanistan. It was the presumed exit strategy: if Afghan forces could become capable enough, the United States could reduce or end its own combat role. Yet the collapse of Afghan security forces after the final US withdrawal raises hard questions about what the United States built, why it built it, and whether the desired end state was ever realistic. The guests discuss the work of the Afghanistan War Commission and what the commission has learned thus far about US efforts to build Afghan security forces. Dr. Colin F. Jackson is the Co-Chair of the Afghanistan War Commission. He has served in a number of roles across academia and policy. Previously he served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Central Asia from 2017 to 2019. He also served as the senior Department of Defense representative to the U.S.–Taliban peace talks. His career serving in the U.S. Army and U.S. Army Reserve included a deployment to Afghanistan in 2011 as Executive Officer for Policy Planning for the Deputy Chief of Staff, Operations U.S. Forces-Afghanistan and as a senior civilian advisor to Task Force Mountain Warrior. COL (Ret.) Edmund J. “E.J.” Degen is the Executive Officer and Chief of the Military Operations & Security Forces Assistance Team at the Afghanistan War Commission. He is a retired career U.S. Army field artillery officer who rose to the rank of colonel and most recently served as the director of the Chief of Staff, Army’s Operation Enduring Freedom Study Group. He commanded artillery units at all levels through the brigade and served as the V Corps (U.S.) chief of plans for the Iraq invasion at the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom, chief of future operations for U.S. Forces Korea, and chief of staff for Combined Joint Interagency Task Force 435 in Afghanistan. He has coauthored two official U.S. Army histories; Modern War in an Ancient Land: The U.S. Army in Afghanistan, 2001-2014, and On Point, The United States Army in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Alexandra Chinchilla and Kyle Atwell are the hosts for this episode. Please reach out to them with any questions about the episode or IWI. The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners to support the community of irregular warfare professionals. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for (always free!) access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources. All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. Intro music: “Unsilenced” by Ketsa Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa
- Jul 21, 202650 min
Innovation Under Fire: What WWII’s Commandos Teach Us About War and the Future of Special Operations
Description Episode 160 examines the origins of Britain’s World War II commandos and the enduring role of special operations forces from Churchill’s era to today. Summary This episode explores the creation of Britain’s legendary commando force following the military disasters of 1940. Author Monty Halls and retired Lieutenant General Scott Howell trace how a remote house in the Scottish Highlands became the laboratory for a new kind of warrior – one selected for grit, initiative, adaptability, and the ability to operate independently under extreme pressure. The conversation examines how early commando raids sought to restore British morale, create uncertainty in the German high command, divert enemy forces, and achieve strategic effects disproportionate to the number of troops involved. The discussion then connects these experiences to modern special operations forces, including their relationship with the conventional military, the importance of joint and combined operations, the risks of overrelying on raids as an easy policy option, and the challenge of adapting SOF for cyber, space, drones, and future large-scale conflicts. Throughout, the episode asks how military institutions can protect their mavericks, preserve disciplined initiative, and innovate before battlefield failure forces them to change. Takeaways Britain created its commando force after conventional doctrine and military institutions failed to meet the crisis of 1940. Inverailort House became an experimental training ground where unconventional leaders developed the culture and methods of the early commandos. Small special operations units can create strategic effects by disrupting adversaries, creating uncertainty, diverting forces, and influencing political decision-making. The psychological impact of commando raids often exceeded their immediate tactical results. Early raids frequently failed, demonstrating that courage and audacity cannot substitute for intelligence, training, planning, and joint support. Special operations forces are most effective when their missions support a broader military and political strategy rather than becoming the strategy themselves. The characteristics sought in World War II commandos – grit, initiative, adaptability, discipline, and comfort with uncertainty – remain central to SOF selection today. Unconventional thinking does not mean abandoning standards, accountability, or good order and discipline. Decentralized special operations require exceptional junior leaders who can exercise independent judgment without losing sight of strategic objectives or ethical boundaries. SOF organizations need political and bureaucratic advocates who can protect experimentation, secure resources, and connect unconventional forces to senior decision-makers. Modern special operations forces must maintain close ties with the conventional services and be prepared to enable the broader joint force in large-scale conflict. Future operators will need to integrate traditional military skills with cyber, space, drones, influence activities, intelligence capabilities, and rapidly changing technology. Success can make military organizations resistant to change, so leaders should deliberately build forces and concepts capable of making today’s successful models obsolete. Policymakers should understand what special operations forces can and cannot accomplish and avoid treating them as an inexpensive solution to every strategic problem. Military institutions should protect their mavericks, encourage disciplined experimentation, and adapt before the cost of failure is paid in blood. Lieutenant General Scott Howell is a retired U.S. Air Force officer who served as the Commanding General of Joint Special Operations Command the the Vice Commander of US Special Operations Command. His experience includes senior leadership in Air Force special operations and extensive work with joint and allied special operations forces. Monty Halls is the author of Churchill’s Killing House: The Origins of World War II’s Legendary Commando Fighting Force. A former Royal Marine, he has worked with members of the British and allied special operations communities and has written ext
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About Irregular Warfare Podcast
The Ir irregular Warfare Podcast explores an important component of war throughout history. Small wars, drone strikes, special operations forces, counterterrorism, proxies—this podcast covers the full range of topics related to irregular war and features in-depth conversations with guests from the military, academia, and the policy community.
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