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Doc Walks: Daily Summaries Delivered
by Ben Steinbauer & Keith Maitland
Documentary filmmakers, Keith Maitland (TOWER, DEAR MR BRODY) and Ben Steinbauer (WINNEBAGO MAN, CHOP & STEELE), host this lively walk & talk podcast featuring conversations with today's best non-fiction storytellers. DocWalks takes the conversation to the street (or nature trail), offering candid insight into the art & industry of documentary filmmaking for an audience of emerging filmmakers and doc-lovers alike.
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- 1 weeks ago1h 9m
EP075 - Naked And Vulnerable W/ Ben & Keith
Episode 75, the Diamond Jubilee, and it's just the two of us. With no guest, with no safety net or buffer, this one finds Ben feeling both naked and vulnerable. But Keith is there to calm his nerves with: a full craft episode, with three buckets. First bucket up, OBSERVATIONAL FILMMAKING. What's right & wrong about fly-on-the-wall as a premise and who gets it right. Ben walks through his plan for an upcoming shoot, and Keith pokes at whether that's observation at all. We'll talk Wiseman and the Maysles and turn to our experiences with 100-plus days hanging out with teenagers at the Texas School for the Blind for Keith's THE EYES OF ME; and one great day on Ben's undergrad short DAY WITH JOHN. Bucket two: RE-CREATION. Keith's got opinions. And a time-tested theory that re-cre (as well as animation) works when it's A-roll and fails as a B-roll Band-Aid. We get into our work on TOWER, DEAR MR. BRODY, and CALLS TO OKIES—and widen out to discuss the subjects and objects of NANOOK OF THE NORTH, THE THIN BLUE LINE and THE ACT OF KILLING. Speaking of subjectivity, Keith drops the bold claim that re-creation is more truthful than observation because it announces itself and Ben has thoughts. Bucket three, for today was meant to be ARCHIVAL STORYTELLING. But as episode 75 runs out of road, we punt on an archival deep-dive for a future episode. So, call this one: 2 out of 3 buckets. Plus: a callback to Barlow Jacobs & Pete Muller; we start counting steps; and we close with some in-theater, under-the-radar recs: WTO/99 and FLAG DAY. DISCUSSION LINKS: THE EYES OF ME (2009) | DAY WITH JOHN (2002) | SALESMAN (1969) | GIMME SHELTER (1970) | TOWER (2016) | DEAR MR. BRODY (2022) | CALLS TO OKIES: THE PARK GRUBBS STORY (2015) | NANOOK OF THE NORTH (1922) | THE VOYAGE OUT (2025) | THE THIN BLUE LINE (1988) | THE ACT OF KILLING (2012) | LA 92 (2017) | LET THE FIRE BURN (2013) | BUCKS HARBOR (2026) | WTO/99 (2025) | FLAG DAY (2026) TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Cold open: selfie sticks and old live oaks 00:55 Episode 75, and no guest 02:00 Why we're doing a craft episode 02:30 The step counter starts now 03:30 Three buckets: observation, recreation, archival 04:15 The Diamond Jubilee and the fire department boats 06:00 Bucket one: what is observational filmmaking? 07:00 Ben's upcoming shoot: a podcast, a conference, a plan 10:30 Be Fred Wiseman for a minute 15:30 People vs. places 17:00 THE EYES OF ME: 100 days at the Texas School for the Blind 19:30 DAY WITH JOHN and learning to direct 23:30 Casting, premise and structure 27:00 The Maysles, SALESMAN and "the Al of this combo" 29:00 Quickfire advice on observation: patience 30:30 Your temperament is how you see the world 32:00 Bucket two: recreation 34:00 TOWER and DEAR MR. BRODY 38:30 Recreation works as A-roll, fails as B-roll 42:30 CALLS TO OKIES and imagining the character 45:30 NANOOK OF THE NORTH and the ethics of artifice 50:00 THE VOYAGE OUT and "recreation is more true than observation" 52:30 Why fiction can tell you more about an era 54:00 Not "should you?" but "how?" 55:30 THE THIN BLUE LINE 57:00 THE ACT OF KILLING 1:00:30 Replaying the walk on the drive home 1:01:00 Bucket three: archival (saved for later) 1:02:30 Recs: WTO/99 1:03:50 Recs: FLAG DAY 1:06:00 Thank-yous and sign-off
- 2 weeks ago1h 1m
EP074 - The Treatiest of Treatises w/ Jeremy Workman
If you're looking for a beer and a sandwich you're in the right place… welcome to Red Hook, Brooklyn, home of dock workers and DocWalkers—meet Jeremy Workman. Jeremy is the director behind the arthouse success story, SECRET MALL APARTMENT. He's also known for LILY TOPPLES THE WORLD, and this year's festival hit, SCHOOL FOR DEFECTORS. When thunder rolls in, we duck into the Red Hook Lobster Pound for a beer, and Jeremy shares his experiences as a second-generation filmmaker (shoutout Chuck Workman) and a deeply experienced trailer-cutter, name-dropping Tarantino, Scorsese, and Maitland along the way. But today's all about the secrets to success in documentary self-distribution. If you haven't seen SECRET MALL APARTMENT, go watch it on Netflix—Jeremy shares the long and self-designed road that got it there. After a SXSW premiere, SECRET MALL APARTMENT had no offers, so Jeremy and his team released it themselves, pushing the "treatise on art" to more than 300 theaters, grossing a million bucks, before landing on Netflix's top five. His take on most distributors? Not kind. We also get into how Jeremy funds his films with a tight circle of private investors, his collaborations with Jesse Eisenberg, why a seven-figure sale of LILY TOPPLES THE WORLD didn't feel like a win, and the Ed Pressman memorial that led him straight to Flaco the owl, star of Penny Lane's WILD INSIDE. Plus: how to survive festival rejection (say yes to yourself); inspiration via early Errol Morris, Gary Hustwit, and MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA; and why we need Chris Smith on this show. We end the way every DocWalk should: an Italian combo, plus sopressata from Defonte's Sandwich Shop. DISCUSSION LINKS: SECRET MALL APARTMENT (2024) | SCHOOL FOR DEFECTORS (2026) | LILY TOPPLES THE WORLD (2021) | THE WORLD BEFORE YOUR FEET (2018) | WILD INSIDE (2026) | AMERICAN PACHUCO: THE LEGEND OF LUIS VALDEZ (2026) | WHO MOVES AMERICA (2026) | SHERMAN'S MARCH (1985) | DEAR MR. BRODY (2021) | TOWER (2016) | THE EYES OF ME (2009) | WHAT IS CINEMA? (2013) | THANK YOU VERY MUCH (2023) | MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA (1929) | GATES OF HEAVEN (1978) | THE THIN BLUE LINE (1988) | THEREMIN: AN ELECTRONIC ODYSSEY (1993) TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Walking Red Hook, Brooklyn 01:11 Meet Jeremy Workman 02:54 SECRET MALL APARTMENT and the self-distribution tease 03:25 How Keith met Jeremy: the DEAR MR. BRODY trailer 04:39 From college job to studio trailers 06:44 Wheelhouse Creative and trailers for documentaries 08:30 Rain, Van Brunt Street and the Red Hook Lobster Pound 11:40 Ed Pressman and a surprise owl 13:51 Developing trailer editors 15:08 Trailers on Jeremy's desk: SHERMAN'S MARCH, WILD INSIDE, WHO MOVES AMERICA 17:29 A synchronicity: the WHAT IS CINEMA? DVD 19:43 Growing up the son of Chuck Workman 22:07 What his father taught him about money and craft 23:50 SECRET MALL APARTMENT in a nutshell 27:21 Twenty-five hours of footage on a $100 camera 28:51 Meeting Michael Townsend in Athens 31:17 Raising money without grants 33:27 Why most distributors disappoint 36:15 Selling LILY TOPPLES THE WORLD: was that a win? 39:40 The SXSW premiere and the decision to self-release 41:42 300 theaters, $1 million and Netflix 45:11 The next chapter: SCHOOL FOR DEFECTORS and consulting 46:08 Gary Hustwit and rethinking the doc industry 47:59 Penny Lane, Gene Gallerano and the dream team 48:38 Advice for first-time filmmakers: say yes
- 3 weeks ago1h 10m
EP073 - No One's Comin' To Save You w/ Dana Reilly
You may remember Dana Reilly, New York filmmaker, and UT Radio-TV-Film alum from our walk around Main Street at Sundance this year. Well, she's back in Austin to present her first feature, OUR BODY ELECTRIC, at the AFS Cinema. From nimbus clouds, to a walk around the DAZED AND CONFUSED baseball diamond, Dana shares the stories that got her to this auspicious moment at the Northwest park trail. From her expat childhood in London (Chris Columbus' kids went to her school) to PROMISES and the classroom AV cart that hooked her on docs, to Brown, the Washington Post Brand Studio and a quarter-life crisis that landed her in Austin for grad school and an impactful stint at Go-Valley. Keith edited her thesis doc, FAVORITE DAUGHTER—a loving portrait of her mom and her grandmother quarantining together in a Tribeca apartment during COVID. It went from a messy, beautiful jumble to Telluride and MTV Documentary Films (thank you Sheila Nevins!) Then the walk goes sideways/back in time. Medieval LARPers take over the park, and pull our attention. Meet the Vinland Texas Vikings, sword-fighting under the Texas sun with helmets, shields and their own strict code of conduct… Dana shares the spotlight for a few moments before we re-center on OUR BODY ELECTRIC. This episode features a trailer for the film, which follows three women bodybuilders vying for the Ms. Olympia title. And we conclude the walk at the AFS Cinema for the post-screening Q&A… When it comes to indie doc-making, Dana tells it like it is, "no one's comin' to save you." Not body-builders, not viking LARPers—no one, but you (& your friends at DocWalks). DISCUSSION LINKS: OUR BODY ELECTRIC (2026) | FAVORITE DAUGHTER (2022) | DEAR MR. BRODY (2022) | DAZED AND CONFUSED (1993) | SLACKER (1990) | EL MARIACHI (1992) | SEVEN UP! (1964) | PROMISES (2001) | PUMPING IRON (1977) | PUMPING IRON II: THE WOMEN (1985) TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Clouds, nimbus puns and a walk in Northwest Park 01:00 Hunting for the DAZED AND CONFUSED baseball field 02:00 Dana Reilly joins us ahead of her AFS Cinema screening 03:00 Born in New York, raised in London 05:00 Ten years at an American school abroad 06:00 SEVEN UP! and Keith's gateway drug 06:30 Documentaries as classroom: the AV cart and PROMISES 08:00 Brown, media criticism and the idea that video is authored 09:45 Post-college New York and the Washington Post Brand Studio 11:00 The quarter-life crisis that led to UT 11:45 Found it: the DAZED AND CONFUSED field 12:30 Why Wiley Wiggins couldn't pitch 14:30 Why Austin, and why UT's hybrid program 17:00 Falling in love with teaching 17:45 FAVORITE DAUGHTER: the thesis about her mom and grandmother 19:00 COVID, Go-Valley and working with Keith 20:30 Editing the beautiful jumble 22:30 Balancing what an audience wants with what Dana wants 24:30 Medieval LARPers: meet the Vinland Texas Vikings 32:30 Back to FAVORITE DAUGHTER and the odd-couple dynamic 33:30 Sheila Nevins, MTV Documentary Films and Telluride 34:45 The hardest part: connecting with an audience 36:00 The long road of OUR BODY ELECTRIC and teaching in New York 37:30 Setting up OUR BODY ELECTRIC and the Olympia 39:00 One bright light, one concern 40:00 Breathe in before you breathe out 41:00 Throwing to the clip
- 4 weeks ago1h 12m
EP072 - Not Since Walt Disney… w/ Geeta Gandbhir
It's a rainy day in Brooklyn, but it sure felt like the sun was shining—guess that's just the effect that Geeta Gandbhir has on those around her! Geeta is having a big year—she just became the first director ever nominated for both documentary feature and a documentary short Oscars in the same year… the first woman, and woman of color with two same year directing noms, challenging the long-standing status of Walt Disney who pulled that feat off in the animated categories decades ago. But we're talkin' docs here and Geeta made two incredible entries last year with the feature, THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR for Netflix, and the short THE DEVIL IS BUSY for HBO. Keith was bowled-over by THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR (produced by Episode 55 guest Alisa Payne) and Geeta shares plenty of behind the scenes details on this singular film. How does a community tragedy in Ocala, Florida become an innovative all-archival film built almost entirely from police bodycam footage? Start with a two-year neighborhood dispute, collect 30 hours of unsynced video, and rely on the talents of editor, Viridiana Lieberman, to figure out a new grammar for 21st-century archival storytelling. No big deal, it just had Keith bawling like a baby, on his second watch, on a plane ride to NYC. No. Big. Deal. We deep-dive, into a moment when a chance encounter with Spike Lee yields a gig on MALCOLM X, sound-room time on Robert Altman's SHORT CUTS, and a mentorship with Sam Pollard that took her from animated to scripted to documentary by way of WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE. There's real advice here for editors turning directors (know every job on set), directors and editors (get a referee), and anyone telling a story about a community that isn't theirs. We dig into the pending merger, the squeeze on buyers, and why going independent was the only way THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR could exist. Plus: her next project on Whoopi Goldberg, the comic books and the spaghetti-less western, SHOLAY that got her here, and a mention of Harry Belafonte, because why not? We bond over DO THE RIGHT THING and she recommends LA HAINE while we successfully avoid the rain, posting-up on Geeta's Prospect Lefferts Gardens stoop to round out our speed round. Keith loved this walk, and not just because Geeta is EP'ing his new short doc, MY FIRE ESCAPE (produced by Alisa!). Thank you, Geeta! DISCUSSION LINKS: THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR (2025) | THE DEVIL IS BUSY (2024) | DO THE RIGHT THING (1989) | MALCOLM X (1992) | SHORT CUTS (1993) | SUMMER OF SAM (1999) | WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE: A REQUIEM IN FOUR ACTS (2006) | SHOLAY (1975) | SALAAM BOMBAY! (1988) | LA HAINE (1995) | UNTITLED WHOOPI GOLDBERG DOCUMENTARY (TBD) TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Rain in Flatbush, meet Prospect Lefferts Gardens 01:00 Meeting Geeta and how Doc Walks began 02:00 Two Oscar nominations in one year 03:00 Inside the awards campaign 04:00 Sundance 2025 and the festival run 07:00 What a nomination does for viewership 08:00 THE DEVIL IS BUSY and the long short-film rollout 10:00 How THE PERFECT NEIGHBOR began: Ajike Owens 12:00 Organizing in Ocala, and the stand-your-ground fear 13:00 Keith on the Sundance buzz and what the film is 16:00 Bodycams as A-roll 17:00 From media liaison to 30 hours of footage 19:00 A film about patterns that plays like horror 22:00 Why the police never saw Susan as a threat 23:00 When it became a documentary 26:00 Editing with Viridiana Lieberman and staying inside the footage 28:00 B-roll interstitials as the film's style 30:00 Found footage and the surveillance state 31:00 DO THE RIGHT THING as a touchstone 33:00 Stalking Spike Lee and landing on MALCOLM X 36:00 SUMMER OF SAM and hanging up on Spike 37:00 The scripted years: Merchant Ivory and SHORT CUTS 39:00 Sam Pollard and the turn to documentary 40:00 WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE 41:00 What Sam Pollard is like as a mentor 43:00 From editor to director to producer 45:00 Advice for editors who want to direct 47:00 Advice for directors working with new editors 48:00 Storytelling as human connection, and doing it ethically 50:00 R
- Sep 24, 20261h 1m
EP071 - Mediation Required w/ Andrew & Melissa Shea
We hit the trail with Austin's own husband-and-wife filmmaking duo, Andrew and Melissa Shea. They've been married for nearly 30 years, partnered on every film they've ever made, and, according to Ben, may be the first couple to pull that off. Andrew's road to filmmaking was wonderfully circuitous. He started as a New York theater kid, passed the bar in two states, ran a regional theater in Santa Fe for eight seasons, and enrolled at USC film school in his 30s. That's where he met Melissa on day one and immediately clashed with her so badly that their TA had to mediate (hence the episode title). Three decades and two kids later, they're still married and still arguing their way toward great movies. We trace the full arc of their filmmaking lives, from the narrative features SANTA FE, THE CORNDOG MAN, and FORFEIT to Andrew's pivot into documentary with PORTRAIT OF WALLY, a 13-year legal thriller about a Nazi-looted painting; WRESTLING ALLIGATORS, centered on a chairman of the Seminole Tribe; and BUZZ, his HBO documentary about journalist Buzz Bissinger's reckoning with Caitlyn Jenner. Then we arrive at FLAG DAY, Andrew and Melissa's first true co-directing effort, more than a decade in the making. The idea began when they fell in love with Three Oaks, Michigan's self-proclaimed biggest Flag Day parade while spending summers there to escape the Texas heat. Shot with 11 crews during a tense election year, the film is a vérité portrait of a divided community that still finds a way to show up for one another. At its heart is a sunset flag-raising ceremony, scored to Paul Simon's "America," that left the entire crew in tears. Along the way, we dig into what documentary filmmaking borrowed from Andrew's years in the theater, why FLAG DAY is exactly 75 minutes long, and why the Sheas are giving the film away to American Legions and libraries instead of chasing a paycheck. Plus, a Great Dane at Westminster, a mediator nobody wanted to use, and the possibility that FLAG DAY might just become the Rocky Horror of small-town America. DISCUSSION LINKS: FLAG DAY (2026) | SANTA FE (1997) | THE CORNDOG MAN (1999) | FORFEIT (2007) | PORTRAIT OF WALLY (2012) | WRESTLING ALLIGATORS (2016) | BUZZ (2019) | I'LL BE THERE (2023) | DR. STRANGELOVE (1964) | FLASHDANCE (1983) | THE WIZARD OF OZ (1939)
- Sep 17, 202648 min
EP070 - Don't Go Chasing the Truth w/ Jannike Åhlund
Welcome to the first-ever Doc Walks International! Keith treks to Sweden, to the tiny Baltic island of Fårö, where INGMAR BERGMAN built his creative base. Keith's there shooting for his new documentary, BERGMAN IN DALLAS, about the filmmaker's forgotten 1981 visit to Texas — enjoying an artist's residency at the Bergman Estate. And this journey into the world of Ingmar Bergman brought Keith to this week's guest, Jannike Åhlund, founder of the Bergman Week festival and chairperson of the Bergman Center, a cultural space and museum here on Fårö. Jannike reflects on time spent with Bergman, going back to her days as a film critic and editor at the Swedish Film Institute's CHAPLIN magazine. And she's got the stories: the convenience-store pitch that birthed Bergman Week, the actual AI chatbot version of Bergman she's had to sit across from, and why "chasing the truth" through Bergman's autobiography is a fool's errand. We dig deep into the making of PERSONA — pitched in a single sentence — plus, why WILD STRAWBERRIES might be his most perfect film, and how the mother/daughter conflict of AUTUMN SONATA hits Jannike hardest, personally. And she lays out why Bergman had almost no direct disciples. Jannike also opens up about co-directing CITIZEN SCHEIN, her own documentary about Harry Schein, the Holocaust survivor who basically invented Swedish film funding and made Bergman's career a possibility. This episode doubles as a deep dive bit of research for Keith and his doc, and a peek into the life of a cinematic legend; it's a different sort of Doc Walk, and we think you're gonna dig it. Along the way: Ruben Östlund's double Palme d'Or run (TRIANGLE OF SADNESS, THE SQUARE); shoutouts to filmmakers Bo Widerberg, Jan Troell, Lars von Trier, and Joachim Trier; and Jannike's gateway film (hint: it's French, black-and-white, and involves 400 of something). Plus: windmills, thatched-roof hovels, and Swedish sheep. Next time, we're back stateside with Andrew and Melissa Shea, the husband-and-wife team behind FLAG DAY, a verité portrait of small-town Michigan's biggest party. DISCUSSION LINKS: SMILES OF A SUMMER NIGHT (1955) | THE SEVENTH SEAL (1957) | WILD STRAWBERRIES (1957) | THE 400 BLOWS (1959) | THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY (1961) | PERSONA (1966) | THE PASSION OF ANNA (1969) | FÅRÖ DOCUMENT (1970) | AUTUMN SONATA (1978) | FÅRÖ DOCUMENT 1979 (1979) | FANNY AND ALEXANDER (1982) | FORCE MAJEURE (2014) | CITIZEN SCHEIN (2017) | THE SQUARE (2017) | TRIANGLE OF SADNESS (2022) | FLAG DAY (2026) | BERGMAN IN DALLAS (TBD) TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Welcome to Fårö — Doc Walks goes international 01:47 Arriving at the Bergman Center with Jannike Åhlund 02:19 Founding the Bergman Center as an offshoot of Göteborg 02:54 From film critic at Chaplin magazine to meeting Bergman 05:01 How Bergman Week began (the convenience-store pitch) 07:37 Bergman's abandoned plan for a film city on Fårö 09:37 The tax scandal and Bergman's self-imposed exile 10:10 Bergman as an autobiographical filmmaker 11:22 Laterna Magica and the "AI Bergman" chatbot 17:17 PERSONA: reinventing himself as an artist 19:49 Scouting Fårö for THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY 20:26 What Fårö is really like (500 people, then 10,000) 22:54 FÅRÖ DOCUMENT, FÅRÖ DOCUMENT 1979, and the island's politics 23:38 Funding Bergman: the Swedish Film Institute and Harry Schein 33:20 Harry Schein, Ingrid Thulin, and CITIZEN SCHEIN<b
- Sep 10, 202645 min
EP069 - GOOD COP, BAD COP w/ Sam Wainwright Douglas & David Hartstein
We walk Hyde Park with longtime friends Sam Wainwright Douglas and David Hartstein — the co-directing team behind Blue Suitcase — and it is not a short story. Turns out it started at Slamdance 2006: David was editing ALONG CAME KINKY: TEXAS JEWBOY FOR GOVERNOR and needed an editor who actually knew Texas; Sam had THE HOLY MODAL ROUNDERS: BOUND TO LOSE playing the same festival. One carpetbagger recognizing another, basically. Before teaming up, David quietly built a run as a go-to producer — THE HAPPY POET, a Venice Biennale College Cinema slot for BARRACUDA — while Sam directed and edited on his own path, making CITIZEN ARCHITECT, HONKY TONK HEAVEN: THE LEGEND OF THE BROKEN SPOKE and NONO A DOCUMENTARY, among many others. Then they finally co-directed together: FADERS UP: THE JOHN AIELLI EXPERIENCE, a loving portrait of the KUT radio legend that started as a short film, went viral off his estate-sale footage, and ended in a standing ovation and an Audience Award at the Paramount during SXSW. From there the pattern holds — a work-for-hire deep dive into Houston Oilers coach Bum Phillips (LUV YA BUM!) and a gorgeous, prescient border-art doc, THROUGH THE REPELLENT FENCE, about Postcommodity's two-mile art installation stitching the US and Mexico together. Sam and David break down their "good cop, bad cop" creative rapport, the philosophy of "building consensus" instead of dictating on set, and why work-for-hire gigs can be exactly the thing that funds the passion projects. We close on a lightning round — 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY and STOP MAKING SENSE as gateway drugs, fatherhood and AI as the things they can't stop thinking about. Two decades of friendship, a dozen-plus films between them, and they're still bickering like it's day one.
- Sep 3, 20261h 7m
EP068 - You Must Be Weird Guys w/ Chris Metzler
Keith goes coastal this week, walking the foggy cliffs of Point Lobos, California with Bay Area filmmaker Chris Metzler—co-director of PLAGUES AND PLEASURES ON THE SALTON SEA, EVERYDAY SUNSHINE: THE STORY OF FISHBONE and RODENTS OF UNUSUAL SIZE. Chris and Keith go back to 2008, when they met at the PBS Producers Academy at WGBH, and their cohort reads like a Sundance roll call: S. Leo Chiang, Su Kim, Christine Turner and more. We dig into how a kid from Independence, Missouri who "hated documentaries" got converted by Errol Morris' FAST, CHEAP & OUT OF CONTROL, picked up a Canon GL1 with his USC dorm-mate Jeff Springer, and spent four years in Final Cut Pro 1 making a comedy about an ecological disaster. Then the twist: a VHS-tape finds its way into the hands of John Waters, and PLAGUES AND PLEASURES ON THE SALTON SEA finds its voice. Chris breaks down exactly what that narration changed—tone, trust, discoverability, and a cult afterlife that now includes Joe Rogan and John Mulaney thinking it's a Waters film. We also get into the birth of RODENTS OF UNUSUAL SIZE, why co-directing is a relay race (& a play on Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady's "co-directors take-turns" model), and Chris's honest math on client work: independent films don't pay, but "award-winning independent filmmaker" brings clients to the table. Along the way there are sea birds & sea lions (and barking filmmakers), a check-in with a plein air oil-painter, spotting a legendary Ansel Adams cypress, and enough rocky, coastal views and 65-degree breezes to cool you down no matter where you're tuning in from. Plus: insight into Angelo and Norwood from Fishbone, the early days of the Documentary Channel, and not-enough time spent talking about SFIndiefest and SFDocFest, the festivals that Chris helps program and run. DISCUSSION LINKS: PLAGUES AND PLEASURES ON THE SALTON SEA (2006) | RODENTS OF UNUSUAL SIZE (2017) | EVERYDAY SUNSHINE: THE STORY OF FISHBONE (2011) | FAST, CHEAP & OUT OF CONTROL (1997) | BARAKA (1992) | AMERICAN MOVIE (1999) | OKIE NOODLING (2001) | SEVENTEEN (1983) | EYES ON THE PRIZE (1987) | THE EYES OF ME (2009) | A VILLAGE CALLED VERSAILLES (2009) | HALE COUNTY THIS MORNING, THIS EVENING (2018) | HOMEGOINGS (2013) | AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH (2006) | GREMLINS (1984) | FOLKTALES (2025) TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Sea otters, selfie sticks and a high-five slate at Point Lobos 00:43 Treasure Island's real coastline (and the guano) 03:00 Meet Chris Metzler 04:05 How we met: the 2008 CPB Producers Academy at WGBH 05:08 Judith Vecchione, Kathy Lo and the ITVS system 06:35 KQED, Truly California and a DIY festival tour 07:50 Keith on PLAGUES AND PLEASURES ON THE SALTON SEA 09:15 Jeff Springer and the rock-star cohort 12:09 PBS is an amoeba 13:48 Finding a cohort without film school; the Ansel Adams tree 15:41 "I hated documentaries": FAST, CHEAP & OUT OF CONTROL, BARAKA, AMERICAN MOVIE 16:40 Tom Neff, USC music videos and America's Treasures 18:00 Sonny Bono, a Canon GL1 and 200 festivals 19:42 An extra VHS for Ann Alexander's neighbor 21:12 Strange moss, and what a John Waters narration changes 23:00 Joe Rogan, John Mulaney and the long tail of a cult doc 25:25 Bombay Beach Biennale: the Salton Sea becomes a destination 26:49 Meeting plein air painter Coraly Hanson on the trail 29:57 Painters, patience and the serendipity of RODENTS OF UNUSUAL SIZE 31:50 Thomas Gonzales checks h
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About Doc Walks
Documentary filmmakers, Keith Maitland (TOWER, DEAR MR BRODY) and Ben Steinbauer (WINNEBAGO MAN, CHOP & STEELE), host this lively walk & talk podcast featuring conversations with today's best non-fiction storytellers. DocWalks takes the conversation to the street (or nature trail), offering candid insight into the art & industry of documentary filmmaking for an audience of emerging filmmakers and doc-lovers alike.
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